Guide To Trading For Beginners

**Jamiemoviemaker** Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:05 am

1. Welcome to the world of online trading!

On behalf of all the users on Youtubers TCG Forums, I would like to welcome you to the world of online trading. Online trading is an amazing place where a person can have access to almost anything they want while not automatically resorting to spending money like on Ebay. Whether you're a Noobie or an Experienced Veteran of trading, this list should be of help when you need it. I hope you enjoy trading on YTCG Forums for years to come.

One Person, One User:

A user profile is unique to the person who made it. One person is only allowed 1 profile ever! This means you can not at any time have more than one account (This includes if a previous one is banned). In addition to that, no other person may access your account at any time (This even includes people you trust). "Sharing/Selling" of your YTCGF'S account is not acceptable and will lead to automatic banning.

).

Not following this rule will result in all additional accounts being banned and the original account being heavily punished.

2. The Basics

So what is online trading exactly? Well to put it simply, it's a method of exchange that involves 2 parties sending item of value THROUGH THE MAIL. In order to decide who sends first, the person with the least "References" (Also referred to as refs) at time of confirmation (Which will be explained later) is the one who sends first.

References:

So what is a reference exactly? A reference is way that shows other users that you are a trust worthy trader and vice-versa (More will be explained later on). Here is the exact definition from WildWill:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildWill
What’s a reference? It’s a number that determines how many different people you have traded with successfully. It shows how trustworthy you are. Face it, trading on the internet is risky, there's a chance you won't get what you have been promised. But with the reference system in place, you can be relatively assured that if you're trading with someone with a high rating you'll get your cards.

Types of References

Positive Ref

Trade went smoothly, there may have been a few complications along the way but in the end everything work out fine. This one adds a +1 to a user's iTrader rating.

Neutral Ref

Complications arose and the trade did not go as planned however you feel it is not destroying a reputation over (With a negative). Misinformed conditions, and incomplete ends (With or without compensation) may all classify this ref. This adds nothing to a user's iTrader rating.

Negative Ref

Horrible trading experience, nothing was accomplished and time/money was wasted. Backing out after trade confirmation, not sending, taking too long to send out, horribly misinformed conditions and very incomplete ends (Without any compensation) all classify this ref. This adds a -1 to a user's iTrader rating. IF A USER OBTAINS 4 OF THESE DURING THEIR TRADING CAREER, THEY WILL BE PERMANENTLY BANNED FROM TRADING.

No Refs

If you decide not to ref a user, that usually mean that a trade was not to your standards, however you do not wish to ruin a traders reputation over it (With a neutral or negative ref). End not arriving (And you didn't send first), backing out (If you believe that it really wasn't their fault), or misinformation all classify for this.

How does one get a reference:

A positive reference can only be obtained when ALL the following criteria is met in a successful trade:

A) All trade negotiations and confirmation must have been done on the Pojo Forums either through posts on threads or the PM system (Arrangements over Instant Messagers providers will not be acceptable, nor will other forms of communication).

B) Both users have sent their items through the mail (So Paypal would not constitute a ref nor is doing a trade in person).

C) Both users must not know each other/share a connection with one another (So no siblings or close friends, trust must be established through the trading process not prior).

D) Both users must live a substantial distance apart (Being a few blocks away doesn't count).

E) Both users must have sent something of value in the trade (So a common for a common will not be valid for a reference, nor is giving a stamp for a card).

Obtaining a reference while not fully adhering to this criteria will result in A REF SCAMMING PUNISHMENT!!! (See Ref Scamming)

If a Neutral or Negative is to be given, then this criteria does not apply.

Ref Scamming:

So what is ref scamming? Well, it can take the shape of may forms however it ultimately leads to a devastating consequence. Such things that are considered ref scamming are the following:

- Obtaining a ref while not following any one of the listed items in the above section "How does one get a reference"
- Making multiple accounts in order to give references to one account to increase your trader rating.

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. IF YOU ARE CAUGHT REF SCAMMING, ALL OF YOUR POSITIVE REFERENCES WILL BE DELETED AND YOU WILL BE FORCE TO SEND FIRST ON ALL TRADES FOR A WHILE. Even after your sentence is up, the Mod Ref will stay on your profile as a constant reminder for what you have done.

Also, pointless trades ARE considered to be ref-scamming. You are NOT allowed to just trade meaninglessly just to exchange refs. Therefore, the rule is that any trade made to be deemed eligible for a ref, has to be at least $5 in monetary value. Trading for junk holos, a few stamps, a few commons, etc....are NOT eligible to be ref'd.

There may be a time where proof of a trade may be requested, so make sure to save all PM's in regards to the trade until it is fully completed (And maybe until a month after for good measure). To find out how to save PM's to your PC, please check out the "Saving your PM's " of this document.

Checking References:

In order to see a person's current iTrader rating, all you need to do is look at their iTrader rating on their profile (On the left side of any post they make, under their total posts).

If you want to see what other people had to say about their trades with the user, all you need to do is click on the number.

What does the percent mean? The percent shows people what percent of successful trades a user has completed overall. This has no baring over the trade whatsoever, and is only for cosmetic reasons.

Reference Exceptions:

The only time the ref rule does not apply is if the following ref is posted on a user's iTrader by a Mod:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punishment Ref
Sends first for XX days and XX trades for ref scamming.

So if it's still within the time/trade limit since the ref was given, the user with that ref would automatically send first (Even if they have more refs than you at that give moment).

In addition, there is something called "The Pojo Master Trading Reference List". On this list, it contains previously earned refs from Pojo's early days. If someone claims to have these, always make sure to check the list to confirm it. These refs are in addition to what they have on their current iTrader rating. WildWill answers this one again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildWill
In order to determine who sends first you need to calculate your TOTAL references. You do that by finding your name on the master list (use Control F if necessary), and adding that number to your current number of references. For example, at the time of this writing I have 27 references on the master list (note, your rating on the master list WILL NOT EVER CHANGE), and I currently have 19 on the new system for a total of 46 references (27+19=46). I would send first to anyone with 47 references or more, and anyone with 46 references or less would send first to me.

But what if you believe that a user might be taking advantage of you sending first (Like they won't send out their end)? Don't worry, there is an alternative.

Middleman Trading:

So what is a Middleman trade? It's when both people send to an impartial "Middleman" (Which both people trust) who checks that both ends of the deal are there and then sends them out to their respective locations (The other trader). Though this will cost a bit (Depending on who you use), it's the best way to guarantee that you will not be taken advantage of. Here is the actual definition from CreatorOfThePointSystem (Previously known as ExMinionofDarkness):

Quote:
Originally Posted by CreatorOfThePointSystem
I'm just going to clarify this so people understand better how a moderator trade exactly works.

*User A and User B both decide to do a mod trade since they're new to the site or it's a high-value trade.

*User A + User B each send their end of the deals to the moderator.

*Once both ends have been received by the moderator, he/she sends the cards where they need to go. (User B's cards go to User A and vice versa.)

*If one end is received but not the other, that end is sent back to its original owner.

However, keep in mind that not only Moderator's can be Middlemen. Some people with a lot of experience on this site may offer what is called "Third Party Escrowing". People that are "Third Party Escrows" are people who are willing to act as a Middleman for a trade, however they are not a Moderator. Secret Squirrel explains that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel
Q: What is the official rule on escrow or mod trades

A: There really is no official rule. If you want an official Escrow trade, with the best guarantee that you'll get your cards, do it with a moderator. If you escrow with anyone else on the board, that's entirely up to you, but don't come whining to us if you get ripped. There is now a thread in the PTC forum for moderators who are willing to take an escrow trade, and for users to request one.

Using a Moderator is highly recommended we requesting a middleman (Due to their creditability and service to the boards). However, if you decide on using someone else the MAKE SURE YOU CAN FULLY TRUST THE PERSON YOU SELECT TO BE YOUR MIDDLEMAN

If you would like to request for a Mod to be your middleman, then post on this thread - http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=594873

3. Making a List and Checking it Twice

So now that you know the basics of trading, it's time to make a list. First off, you must find the forum you want to create a list for (Like Bleach, Yu-Gi-Oh, Video Games). Next, you must find the "Trading Forum". Once you are in the correct forum, it's time to begin.

How to start a list:

To create a list, you first must be in the correct forum (See above). Once you are there, click on "Forum Tools" on the blue toolbar beside "Threads in Forum" and scroll down to "Post a New Thread".

Making your list:

Your list must require the following:

1. A set of rules - These include where you ship to, who you ship to, and any other things that you want all traders on your list to know (Like "I will not trade to a person who has a negative ref"). Just make sure that your rules do not break any of Pojo's rules (See "Trading Rules~ READ FIRST BEFORE MAKING THREADS").

2. Haves - Items that you and only you own and have on you. So this means that you can't trade a friend's/teammate's items, nor can you trade items that are not yours yet. Though you don't need to put everything you own, it is required that you put at least 10 items or more.

3. Wants - Pretty self-explanatory, put down things that you want. You don't need to put ever single thing, but put enough so that people can get a general idea (Again, 10 are required). You can not have a "Money Only" wants, if you want to sell everything, go to eBay.

Once that is out of the way, you can decorate it to your desire. But please make it look appealing to the general public using proper spelling and spacing things accordingly (So to avoid getting a headache).

Once you've done everything you wanted, click the "Post Thread" button (Or review it with the "Preview Post" button). I suggest subscribing to your thread so that you can see every time someone posts on it.

Please keep in mind that YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED 1 TRADING THREAD PER 7 DAYS. If you do not follow this rule, you will get your thread locked and will be unable to trade for some time.

4. Posting on Threads

So now that you have your list all up and running, it's time to hit the scene. To post on a person's thread, all you need to do is type your post in the quick message box at the bottom of a person's list.

Here are some general tips to keep in mind while posting:

- If you wish for a user to take a look at your list, please provide the link somewhere in your post (Or if you have it in your signature, please indicate that it is there).

- Use proper grammar and punctuation.

- Make sure to read and understand the rules of the thread (They might not be the same as yours).

- Be respectful of other's responses and of their thread.

- Make sure to keep in touch on the user's thread until there is nothing left to respond to (Don't "Hit and Run").

5. Making a trade

Once you and another user have come to an agreement in terms of a trade, it's now time to confirm it.

Confirming a trade

Because trades contain sensitive information, all confirmation must be done over the PM system. A standard confirmation must contain the following:

1. The trade outline (Who is giving up what).
2. Conditions of the items involved (If applicable).
3. Any questions regarding the trade (When will you send out, how will you send out, etc.)
4. Who is sending first (Based on the current amount of refs).

Once that is all done (Both users make sure the information is accurate and that all questions have been answer) you both then must exchange addresses. ONCE ONE TRADER SENDS AN ADDRESS, THE OTHER TRADER HAS A MAXIMUM OF 3 DAYS TO SEND THE OTHER ADDRESS TO COMPLETE CONFIRMATION. If Trader A sends an address, and Trader B does not send an address within 3 days, Trader A is allowed to void the deal, canceling obligation to send out. No refs are left under this scenario. ONCE ADDRESSES HAVE BEEN EXCHANGED ON BOTH ENDS, THE TRADE IS NOW CONFIRMED AND YOU CAN NOW GET NEGATIVELY REFFED FOR BACKING OUT, also it becomes a legal binding contract. If you have any intent do back out of a trade, do so before both addresses are exchanged. If you don't then you can get negatively reffed for breach of contract.

Here is an example of what a standard confirmation looks like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trader B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trader A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trader B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trader A
Our current trade is as follows:

My - 1st ed Alien Mother x1 (85% Mint), Smashing Ground x1 (Common), Crystal Beacon x1 (HL05) and Archfiend of Gilford x1 (Jump)

for

Your - Sangan x2 (HL2) and Heavy Storm x3 (HL2)

Before we exchange addresses, I would like to ask the following:

1. Are the cards I'm trading for mint?
2. When will you be able to send out by?
3. Are the cards real and North American versions?
4. Do you have any questions?

Please reply back when you can.

Yes, they are mint and real. I intend to send out today with a regular white envelope. Do you have any further questions?

No I do not, if there are no future questions then my address is as follows:

Jimmy F. Ake
1807 Clear View Drive
Winnipeg, Manitoba
H7Y 2L6
Canada

Please reply back with your address to confirm.

Here is my address

Jacksun Real
7 Savage Road
Endsville, IL 68495
USA

Saving your PM's

Make sure to save your PM's until a trade has been fully completed and both ends are satisfied (You might be needing them in the future). You can download them to your PC if you want, here's how to do so:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggededge11
To do this all you need to do is:

1. Open your PM box
2. Scroll down to the bottom of the page
3. Below the blue bar ending the PM's there is a section called "Download all Private Messages As".
4. Right click and save as on the format that's right for you.

Alternatively:

1. Open your PM box.
2. Select all the PM's you want saved (Or click on the top right box to select all PM's).
3. Go to the bottom right of the Pm section (The Blue bar)
4. Click on the selected messages scrolldown.
5. Select download as "XML/TXT/CSV" and you're done.

This one helps if you only want specific Pm's downloaded (In case you want all the PMs for a certain trade).

Personally, I save all my important PM's for about a month (Or until the trade is resolved).

6. Sending out your end

Here are some key pointers when sending your end out to prevent any complications:

- Make sure you end is protected (Toploaders for cards, Bubblewrap for breakables/bendables, etc.).

- Use an envelope that will withstand your contents. Don't try and stuff 13 toploaders into a single white envelope, instead spend a bit more money and get a Kraft Bubble Envelope. It will cost a bit more, but it will ensure your end will arrive protected and in one piece.

- Print their address clearly and in either permanent marker or Black/Blue Ink. Make sure to include you return address incase the mail is undeliverable.

- Make sure their address is correct and it's written in the correct format (Often shown when giving it to you in the confirming PM).

- Tape over any seals to ensure nothing falls out. It's better to be safe than sorry.

- Be sure to include your name and address somewhere in the envelope in case it gets misdelivered. Also include the correct destination of the package (Should be the same as the address on the envelope itself).

How to give a ref

Ask Jamiemoviemaker he will give you the ref just post in the Ref thread

8. Helpful tips to prevent getting ripped off and other useful information

There are some things a user must know while trading online, I hope you can commit these to memory (Or have this section accessible at all times).

Tips

1. If a trade looks too good to be true, it probably is - Countless people get suckered into sending expensive items without getting anything in return, use your discretion when getting these types of offers.

2. For all expensive trades, there's middlemen - Every user has the right to a Mod trade. If you are sending items that you don't want to loose, asking for a middleman is a sure fire way to make sure that doesn't happen. No matter how many refs the other user may have, a middleman is recommended for high end trades.

3. Go with your gut feeling - If you feel uneasy about a user, then don't do a trade. You are not obligated to trade, so feel free not to.

4. Check out refs often - Though a user may have more refs than you, make sure they don't have a Punishment Ref on them or that they are not allowed to trade for some time.